Flying Free After a Major Challenge or Adversity

Managing emotions after trauma. Building resilience and grit to survive and thrive. Forgiving yourself and others to find freedom.

Nunaisi 00:00

Hello and welcome to Rise. I am so so happy to have a very special guest here and her name is Lois Wagner. She is an inspirational speaker and storyteller, coach, mentor, and facilitator. As a certified conversational intelligence coach, she facilitates individual and group coaching, interactions, and immersion workshops. She inspires people with her storytelling to make a difference in their life and to achieve their personal best. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Lois Wagner 00:40

Thank you. I’m so excited to be here. It’s such an important platform that you’re offering. Thanks, Nunaisi.

Nunaisi 00:47

Oh, it’s my pleasure. And of course, if you’re storytelling, I would start with your story. Why you’re here and why are you doing what you’re doing?

Lois Wagner 00:59

Well, I’ve got lots of stories. When you reach my age, you’ve got lots of stories, but I think the big story as to why I’m here, is many years ago, because at the time when South Africa was going through the change from apartheid to democracy, I had a printing business in partnership. And I was working late one night in my little printing business, it was a beautiful summer’s evening, and I was sitting in the courtyard working, and this man jumped over the wall, and it was an eight-foot wall, and he attacked me with a screwdriver. And I fought him with everything I had, but unfortunately, he overpowered me, and he raped me, he tied me up and he left me for dead.

And fortunately, I didn’t die, I’m still here. Because at a time when the word rape was never discussed in polite circles, we didn’t talk about those things, it just happened over there, it never came into our sphere. And so, it was such a shock, which it would be anyway, but it was such a shock at that time that this would happen to me, that I got so angry. The a rapist was apprehended, and he was out on bail for rape, so I was so angry that I became an activist. And because we were moving from apartheid, they were looking for new submissions for the constitution. And so, I wanted to change the law, I wanted to change everything, and I became this activist and I led marches, and I lobbied, and I petitioned, and I wanted to make a difference in the world. So, that’s where my story began.

Nunaisi 02:56

I really appreciate you sharing this very intimate part of your life. And I am really in awe of how you managed to transform it into making a difference, into, as you said, activism and changing the law, and doing all of that. That is really how one can take an unfortunate situation and create something really powerful with it.

Lois Wagner 03:24

Well, there was a lot of negativity to that as well, and that is why I also do what I do today. Because I was so angry and I became this activist, everybody was saying to me how proud they were of me, how strong I was, how brave I was. “Look how strong she is, look how brave she is”, look at me, look how strong and brave I am, so it went a little bit to my head, I suppose, that I was this fighter.

In those days, you just didn’t have people talking on this topic, and so I this brave, strong fighter, and feeling pretty good about what I was doing. And two things happened almost immediately, my business partner betrayed me and I lost the business, I went bankrupt, went deep into debt, which was a problem. On top of dealing with the fallout of the rape, I was now dealing with the loss of a business. And then, about two to three years later, one morning, I couldn’t get out of bed, my leg and back just didn’t want to work, and X-rays, and scans, and various other medical opinions, I had to have a back operation.

So, I had a back operation, it failed, I had a second back operation, it failed, I was bedridden for six months. And what happened was, a doctor friend of mine, who is out of the country at the time, looked at all my scans and X-rays, and he said he couldn’t see anything wrong, he wouldn’t have operated. And then, my sister who unfortunately is no longer with us, she was an alternative healer, and she looked at me, and she said, it’s all in your head, there’s nothing wrong with you.

And basically, the bottom line is, I was not facing my problems, because I was so brave and so strong, I hadn’t dealt with the emotions, I jumped straight from being a victim into being a survivor without dealing with those negative emotions of what happens when you have a traumatic experience. And so, what happened was, I wasn’t facing the problems, I was putting them behind me and I was putting them behind me, and I was putting them behind me, until one day, my back just said, “I can’t hold this anymore”, and my back collapsed, and that was it, I was bedridden.

The surgeons had told me that I would never hike or scuba dive again, which were my two passions at the time, because they said, I could never carry anything on my back again. And I did some head work, I dealt with those, being brave and strong emotions, I dealt with all the fear and the hatred, and this sadness, and all of those negative emotions that I had, that I had not dealt with, at the time, I’ve dealt with those. I had eight chiropractic treatments and I did a five-day hiking trail with a 29-kilogram backpack on my back.

Nunaisi 06:46

Woohoo! And so, I just want to touch on a very important point that you said, is that if we don’t feel our emotions and all those negative emotions that are stuck in the body, it will come out as a disease or as an injury, or as an accident, if you will, right? Because the body-mind connection is just so powerful that it sits in the body and the body is communicating that there is something unresolved, right?

Lois Wagner 07:22

It’s so important that we deal with those emotions when they arise. If you brush them under the table, they do come back and they trigger you later.

Nunaisi 07:33

Right. They haunt, right? They keep on lingering until they are felt. And I would like to know what were your ways to process those emotions.

Lois Wagner 07:45

Well, it was really just thinking about it and working through it. So, the hatred, for example, I hated that man, and that’s a terrible emotion. I was terrified, if somebody came up behind me, I would jump, so I had this permanent fear, depression. And I was dealing with those things by drinking and eating too much, and so by dealing with it, it’s a matter of feeling that emotion, to actually sit with it and say, what is this doing for me? Because sometimes there’s good, the negative emotions, there’s a reason you’re having it. You’ve got to experience that particular emotion. Well, how’s it impacting on my body? How’s it serving me? How is it dis-serving me? And really just examining it and feeling it, and saying, this is what it’s doing to my mind, this is what it’s doing to my body, this is how it’s negatively impacting on my life, and deal with it through various techniques.

There’s so many different techniques that you can use. I’ve tried a number of them, but for me, it was really intellectualizing them and working through them at a cognitive level, as well as I did techniques such as a bit of tapping and havening. I used a number of different techniques, but for me, it was really just examining, sitting with them, feeling them, and really understanding what they were and how they were affecting me, and, yeah so, and once I’ve done that and said, okay. And then, also working to forgiveness, to forgive myself for having those feelings, hatred is such a negative emotion. And what is it doing? It’s only hurting me, it’s not hurting anybody else, and so I needed to forgive myself, not only for my thoughts but also for my behaviors, the fact that I’ve drank too much and ate too much, and misbehaved.

Nunaisi 09:56

I really love that you mentioned that you had to forgive yourself, and I really find in my own personal journey as well, that forgiveness always comes from self-forgiveness first. We cannot forgive somebody outside of us before we are forgiving ourselves. And exactly for what you mentioned, for having negative emotions, for behaving in ways that are dysfunctional and harming us, for maybe feeling that we have done differently than what we could of. All of those processes comes from self-forgiveness and only when we are in peace and forgiveness within, can we actually forgive somebody outside of us, right?

Lois Wagner 10:48

The two go hand in hand, really, and it depends on what it is. You can forgive the perpetrator sometimes, while you’re still harboring some of your own negative thoughts. So, yes, but it does help if you can let go of those negative feelings that you have about yourself, it makes it so much easier to move on to somebody else.

Nunaisi 11:11

Right. Because I find the energy of forgiveness is really hibernating inside and spilling out, rather than trying to forgive somebody else before we forgave ourselves, there is a mismatch, right?

Lois Wagner 11:34

Yeah. For example, the hatred, because I hated this individual so much, how could I forgive him if I hated? So, I had to forgive myself and the hatred first, yes, absolutely. The overeating and the drinking, I didn’t have to forgive myself first.

Nunaisi 11:56

Sure, and it’s a process, right? I mean, it’s not a one-off event, you can’t forgive with the mind. Sure, the mind is part of it, but it’s really an embodied understanding or accepting, or really feeling it, really coming to terms with it, is an embodied experience.

Lois Wagner 12:26

And also, you cannot forgive – I’ve created a model where you move from victim to survivor, to thriver to freedom. And when you’re in the victim phase, or even in the survivor phase, it’s not possible to forgive because when you’re in the = victim, you’ve got all those negative feelings, and how can you forgive somebody when you’re full of fear and hatred, and depression, it’s not possible. And when you’re in the survival mode, you move from victim to survivor, and survivor is still a struggle. What happens when you’re a survivor is you are putting your pieces back together and you try to make sense of what happened, and you got a bit of courage and creativity, and a bit of strength. And that was my problem, I jumped straight from victim to survivor without dealing with the victim emotions.

So, when you move into survivor mode, you are still not ready to forgive because you try to get your life back together, you try to make meaning of what happened, and so it’s still not possible. The next phase is when you develop your grit and your grit is your perseverance, and your passion, and your persistence, where you go forward to a new reality to find new goals and new aspirations, and it’s at that point that you can start working on forgiveness. So, when people say, “Oh, I can’t forgive”, it’s not that they can’t forgive, it’s because they’re not in the place where they are ready to forgive, if you’re still in the victim or survivor mode, it’s not possible.

When you’re in the thriving mode, which you get to with your breath, that is where you develop a growth mindset, you suffer from post or you gain from post-traumatic growth, and you get this growth mindset where you say, what have I learnt, how does this serve me, how have I grown, how have I changed? And you improve yourself and you learn, and you understand what’s going on, and it’s this phase that you can now say, okay, I can think about forgiving,

Nunaisi 14:35

Right. I love how you describe it. So, it’s really a process that has steps, right, and we can’t jump ahead, we have to kind of go through the chronological order of unpacking and really moving from one phase to the other. And each phase is a necessary part of the process and completing that moves us to the next stage.

Lois Wagner 15:02

Although, we must be aware that it’s not a linear journey, you don’t go from phase one to phase ten. You go up and down, and something triggers you, and it goes backwards and forwards, and you can even be in the thriving phase, and something triggers you and you go back, and you start all over again. And that’s where forgiveness is so powerful, because when you work with forgiveness, it actually releases those emotions at a deep subconscious level, and you don’t get triggered anymore. So, for example, this man attacked me from behind, so if anybody walked behind me, I would really jump out and get such a fright, once I forgave, which it’s amazing, people can come up behind me and go boo, and it doesn’t frighten me anymore because that trigger has been released completely. But it did take me 14 years to get there and I say to people, please don’t wait 14 years, you can do it a lot quicker than that.

Nunaisi 16:05

I agree with you on that time element. I also feel that I had to go through 25 years of my healing and I really found the shortcut that can take people through, it’s so much quicker, so we are really the pioneers of those methods. And then, we want to lay out and share with other people, and shorten their time because, really, they are tools to overcome challenges and adversity, as you share, and the journey of going through that path is actually what empowers you, and brings you back home to be the better, the most expanded version of yourself. Right?

Lois Wagner 16:48

Absolutely. But for me, the true healing came 14 years later, I had left South Africa and I was living in the Middle East, and I was coming back for my first holiday, I’d been away for a year, and the rapist had been given a 25-year prison sentence, and I had never really inquired or wanted to know what had happened to him. And I was coming home and I thought, I wonder what’s happened to him, and I contacted the authorities, and they told me that he was up for a parole hearing the day after I arrived in the country, and that was just so much of a coincidence.

And in addition, the law in South Africa had just changed, allowing what they call victims of major crimes to attend parole hearings, and so synchronicity, the universe had spoken, I just had to go to this parole hearing. So, friends and family advised me not to go, they said, I’ll get triggered, they say what was the objective, was I going to support his parole, and I said, I don’t know, the universe has spoken, I must go. And then, one friend said to me, if you’re going, you must forgive, and I just said, don’t be ridiculous, how can I forgive this man who had such an impact on my life? But he got me thinking and I went to Mr. Google, and I searched, and researched, and came up with this whole almost academic approach to forgiveness.

And I went to the prison, and I was the first person in South Africa to attend one of these new parole hearings, they didn’t quite know how to deal with me, so it was quite a process. But I went into the prison and I sat in the parole hearing, and when they asked me, did I have anything to say, I pulled up this prepared speech and I read it, but it was too academic. The rapist had a grade six education, English was not his first language, he didn’t understand it, I don’t think I understood it. So, I just looked at him in the eyes and I just said to him, I forgive you. I forget exactly what I said, now, but it’s something about, I forgive you completely and compassionately, and I take responsibility for my higher self and I hand it back to you, and you take back the responsibility, and I take back my power. And it was magical, as I said those words, I realized that I meant them, it was so liberating because what forgiveness is, forgiveness is not condoning, he deserved to be in jail, what he did was wrong. So, it’s not condoning what he did, what it is, I mean, forgiveness is you bonded to that person or to that situation, you’re walking around with the pain and the angst, and the stress, and the negativity, and when you forgive, all it’s doing is it’s actually just breaking that bond, and it’s setting you free.

And when I say it set me free, I didn’t walk out of that prison, I flew out of that prison, completely free of all of those negative feelings and of that situation. The authorities told me they would let me know in seven days if he got parole or not, and I just said, no, I don’t need to know, because he now has nothing to do with me, I don’t need to know whatever happens to him, he is no longer a part of my life. So, total freedom.

Nunaisi 20:44

This is such a beautiful story, how you released yourself from that bondage. You literally just cut off the ties, right, but you could only do that after you have processed all your emotions, right? If it would be right after the event, you couldn’t have done that, you couldn’t have said that and really mean it, right?

Lois Wagner 21:09

Absolutely, yeah. That’s what I said, it’s a process, and it does go up and down. There were times I thought, yes, I’m okay, and then you fall down again, but after forgiving, I’ve never had those negative feelings again.

Nunaisi 21:23

So, that was really your full freedom, right? And letting go and stepping into your next level of evolution without carrying all that baggage.

Lois Wagner 21:40

Yeah, it really is freeing.

Nunaisi 21:45

And so, I really want to dive more into how can one achieve this freedom from the past. How can one move from adversity, move from challenge, and claim freedom?

Lois Wagner 22:02

Well, it really starts right at the beginning, by dealing with those emotions. And we’re very good at doing vision boards for our dreams and our homes, and our careers. I like the idea of doing a vision board of your emotions, so I talk to people and I say, how do you feel? Describe the feeling, get all those feelings. Where in your body, where in your mind? What does it look like? Use all the senses. What does it feel like? What does it smell like? And really feel those emotions. And then, we move on to how do you want to feel? So, remove from how you are currently feeling to how do you want to feel.

And recreate a vision of that feeling. And it’s sometimes quite difficult but it feels like the sun shining on my face, it looks like waves in the ocean, and really what does it feel to be free of this negative emotion that you’re experiencing? And when you can get yourself into that and visualize that, and create an accompanying affirmation of how you feel, you’re really halfway to healing, and so, that’s what I like to work with.

Nunaisi 23:28

Right, emotional vision board. So, do you place pictures that symbolize feelings?

Lois Wagner 23:38

Yeah, the same way as you do with all the other vision boards, but do it on your emotions and not on the things that you want in life, the feelings you want in life.

Nunaisi 23:50

I love that. Because even the things that we want, ultimately, they are tied to emotions we want to feel, right? And it’s really by activating those emotions that we can actually manifest those things anyway. So, I like that you just took it to another direction, altogether, and you concentrate on the feelings, and the things will follow because when you feel great, obviously, you attract all that greatness into your life.

Lois Wagner 24:23

So, I wanted to show you my model, just so that you get an idea of what it looks like. So, you go through life and life is functioning normally, and then suddenly, something disrupts you, in my case, I was raped. It could be anything, it could be an accident, it could be the loss of a job, it could be the loss of a loved one, but something disrupts your life and things are not good anymore, and you become a victim, and you become that victim with all the associated negative emotions, and that’s the emotions we need to deal with it.

And then from there, you build your resilience, so your resilience is your courage and your creativity, and your strength, when you go forward with new open dialogues and discussions, and you try and make sense of meaning of what has happened, and that is when you become a survivor. And then, from there, as I mentioned, you develop your grit, you set new aspirations and goals, and you go forward with passion and perseverance, and persistence. And then, that is when you become a thriver, you become empowered, and you achieve some level of success. And then that is, again, where you build your growth mindset, you start learning about what has happened, how it served you, how it’s disserved you, you start delving into more information.

And some of us, like you and me, we develop a benefit mindset, and that’s when we say, how can we help other people? How can we give back through what we’ve experienced and what we’ve learned? And then finally, you forgive yourself, you forgive others, and you fly free.

Nunaisi 26:07

I love that, I love that. Yay, I hold for that. Yeah, I like how you simplified this whole process. As you said, it’s not linear, it’s more like a spiral, I would even imagine it to be. And each time, you manage to get to a different level and see things a little bit more clearly, and integrate them a bit better. And it’s a journey, right? It’s got ups and downs, and bumps, and some days are great, and some days are challenging, and it’s really working with what is, but knowing that you have the power. The power is in you and you are the one you’ve been waiting for, nobody can do it for you, right? It’s – ultimately, you are the one that has to walk that journey.

Lois Wagner 27:03

And two things, it’s important to know that you’re not alone, there are people who can help you and support you, family, friends, therapists, healers, there’s so much support out there that you’re not alone. And secondly, that your journey is unique, no two people will go through the same journey, you will go through the same experiences, but at different times at different intensities, you’ll go up and down at different rates, people will have different emotions, different roadblocks, different hazards. Whereas you’ll all find that the final destination will be the same but your road map there will be very, very unique to you. So, you can’t compare your journey to anybody else.

Nunaisi 27:53

Right. And really, ultimately, I think that we all have the perfect journey for our soul. So, we’re here on Earth, experiencing adversity and challenges, all of us, no exception. I have not met, yet, somebody that was exempt from that, right? We all have our pains to deal with and we’re all going to experience some form of grief or loss of a loved one, or when life doesn’t really unfold the way we want it. And I keep saying that life is happening for you and not to you, because ultimately your soul really wants to experience the vastness, the expansiveness of all those experiences and feelings that you have experienced. So, nothing is really by accident, it’s all perfect for your soul blueprint.

Lois Wagner 29:02

And that’s another whole discussion.

Nunaisi 29:06

That’s another whole discussion, right. And so, yeah, I really like your model, how you soar and fly to freedom. I like this title and how you simplified it. And so, what are the fundamental signs that you are in each category, just for people to be able to self-identify where they are with something that they’re still very potent in their life in which stage they are?

Lois Wagner 29:45

Well, it’s really just back to your emotions. So, when you’re angry and depressed, and fearful, you’re a victim, you’re still in the victim phase. When you prepare to discuss and debate, and analyze it, you’re in the survivor phase. And when you are now thinking about a future without those problems, you’re in the thriving phase, and you will know when you’re in the freedom phase, when you’ve forgiven. So, it’s just really understanding how you are feeling and how it’s impacting on your life, and you will know straight away, hey, this life is not good, I’m not happy. Then, you may be somewhere between thriving and surviving. So many people today talk about “I’m a rape survivor”, or I’m a whatever survivor, but for me, and not everybody agrees with this, but for me, the word survivor means struggle, “I’m struggling to get through this”, and so you will know, if things are not working according to plan, you are still struggling, so you may be thriving, you may be in survivor mode. Thriving, you will know, things are coming together, you’re feeling happy, you’ve got your direction, you’re managing to cope with your emotions, then you’re thriving, and you’re feeling empowered, and you’re having success in managing your emotions and your life.

Nunaisi 31:20

Right. And ultimately, this whole summit is really about this journey from surviving to thriving, to be unable to transform trauma. And I tend to say that trauma it’s not necessarily only this huge thing that has this huge impact on you, like you had with being raped, it can be also something a little bit less bombardic and maybe even more subtle, and maybe even not as recognizable, but it can be very intense feelings if we couldn’t process in a proper way and keep lingering, or anything like that. And when you take inventory, and you see what are the emotions that predominantly run your life and that are there, then then you start to unpack them, and you can move through that journey to become a thriver.

Lois Wagner 32:24

You need to take something, let’s say you have an accident, that somebody else caused the accident, you go through exactly the same kind of process, because, first, you’re really angry, this person was so stupid and they cut you off, and they swerved, and they hit you, and now your car’s damaged, and you’re angry and you’re frustrated, and you’ve got all these other emotions, you’re a victim.

And then you start saying, okay, well, now I’ve got to get my car fixed and I’ve got to get alternative transport, and now you start becoming a survivor, you’re starting to make sense of what happened. And you can start even saying, well, if I hadn’t had the accident, I would have got to that appointment and I would have fired somebody, or something would have happened negatively, and you start understanding the reason for it. And then you start saying, okay, well, now I can buy a new car, or now I can do something different, and you start focusing on getting a different direction, a different thought process around it.

And then you can say, well, I forgive myself for driving too slow or too fast at the time, and I can forgive that person, that person may have been in a hurry, maybe they had an emergency, and I can forgive them for making that mistake, they had their own set of problems. And that’s where the compassion comes in, seeing it from their point of view, why did they do what they did. And if you can understand their point of view, you’re halfway to forgiving, and then forgive, and now, you’ve got your new car, or maybe it’s a repaired car, maybe it’s not quite as good as it was before, but hey, you’ve learnt a lesson, you now are more aware on the road, you’re more cautious on the road, and there’s a lesson that you’ve learned, and you may be a better driver as a result. So, it applies to any adversity or challenge that you have faced in your life.

Nunaisi 34:25

Yeah, right. And so, I know that you have an embodiment process for us and I would love you to dive into it. Yeah, visualize a positive emotion.

Lois Wagner 34:46

So, what I want you to do is to just get one of your negative emotions and you probably don’t – you, yourself, Nunaisi, don’t probably have a negative emotion right now, but what I’d like people to do is to get that negative emotion and just sit with it, to close your eyes. So, if you can think of something that’s annoying you while sitting here at the time, at this time, just close your eyes and think of that emotion, really feel that emotion, feel it in your body, where do you feel it, whatever that emotion is? How do you feel it, is it in your stomach? Is it in your back or your neck, or are you tense? Just try and feel physically where it is.

And then, get a color to it. What is the color of that emotion? Feel that color, get that color in your mind, put it in the body where you are feeling it, and then, how does it feel to the touch? If you had to touch it, is it hot, is it rough, is it squishy? How does it feel to the touch? Is there maybe a smell to it?

Rotten eggs or some bad smell to it, and maybe there’s a sound like nails scraping on a blackboard, screeching, some kind of a sound associated with it.

So just feel it, listen to it, maybe there’s a taste, it tastes sour, and just feel that emotion, really, really feel it. Okay, now, I want you to open your eyes and I want you to shake it off, physically shake it off, and you can do some havening. This is a havening technique, just love yourself a little bit, give yourself some love, breathe in good positive thoughts, deep breathing, hold it and breathe out the negative emotion. Breathe in deep positive feelings, hold it for a few counts and breathe it out heavily, the negative emotion that you are feeling. You do that two or three times, we’ll do it one more time, breathe in with positivity, hold it, and breathe out.

Now, I’d like you to think of the emotion that you would like to replace that emotion with. What emotion would you like to feel instead of that negative emotion? How do you want to feel? So, again, where in your body? So, if before maybe it was a tightness in the chest, maybe now you want to feel an open chest with easy breathing, where in your body? Maybe your stomach is not hurting anymore, or your throat is not constricted. So, where in your body, and then put a color to it. Maybe it’s a shiny silver or yellow, or gold, what color does this look like, now? And again, what does it feel like if you had to touch it? Does it feel smooth and gentle? Is it soft or furry even? How does it feel? Get that feeling, can you smell it? Is there a nice smell? Maybe it smells like roasted coffee beans or freshly baked bread, what is the smell associated with that feeling? The color, the smell, the sounds, maybe its birds twittering or children laughing, what is the sound? Maybe it’s gentle music. Put a sound to that feeling, its smells, the sounds, the sights. What do you see when you’re having this wonderful feeling? Maybe it’s the sun shining, maybe it’s a forest, beautiful trees or flowers? So, really get the feeling and look at it, and feel it.

And then, I want you to put some words to it. How are you feeling? I am feeling happy, I’m feeling free, I’m feeling at peace. How do you feel? Put some words to it and put them in the now. How are you feeling now? And create an affirmation of how you’re feeling. I’m feeling wonderful, I am free, I’m at peace, I am comfortable, and really feel, put the words to those feelings. Make sure you’ve got a great vision of this feeling in your mind, put the words to it, you can say the words out loud. I am, I feel, put the words in how do you feel, you are what? I am comfortable, I am happy, I am at peace.

Okay. Open your eyes, breathe in that lovely vision, that lovely feeling, breathe it in, hold it, hold it, breathe out any negativity. So, that is the process very simply, it really helps if you can physically create that vision, get pictures, put yourself in the picture. So, maybe your picture is you walking along the beach. So, get a photo of yourself walking and you can put it into a collage of you walking on that beach, if the sun is shining, or if there’s clouds or birds, put it into your picture, physically create that collage.

And then, the affirmation, say that affirmation. I’ve recorded my affirmation and it’s actually my alarm clock, so every morning I wake up to my own voice saying my affirmation. So, it’s very powerful, I’ve got two affirmations, the first one is a very wake-up positive one saying, today’s a beautiful day, today I’m having great surprises and great expectations. So, that’s the first one which wakes me up, and then the second one is just saying, “I am”, and that’s a little bit more peaceful and calm.

And so, if you can record it and play it back to yourself, it’s very, very powerful. Put it on your computer, put it on your phone, write it, draw it, put it somewhere where you can see it, and I recommend you look at it every morning, every evening. And whenever you feel triggered, whenever you’re having one of your negative emotions, pull out this visual and have a look at it, and just put yourself into that place.

Nunaisi 42:49

Love it, I love it. I love the idea of recording your own voice and using affirmations to drive it back home, it’s brilliant, I will definitely do it myself. And we are going to wrap this beautiful conversation, and if people want to get ahold of you, work with you, what’s the best place to find you?

Lois Wagner 43:16

Well, that’s the name of my book, it’s the name of my website, and it’s the name of my Facebook page, Walking Without Skin. So, I’m very easy to find, Walking Without Skin, there’s only one other Walking Without Skin and that’s a robot. So, you’ll find me very easily walkingwithoutskin.com or on Facebook with the same name.

Nunaisi 43:42

Thank you so so much for your wisdom and your sharing. It was really very, very encouraging and enlightening, and I’m so happy you have shared this process. And thank you so much and blessings on your journey.

Lois Wagner 44:02

Thank you very much and I invite everybody out there to fly free.

Nunaisi 44:11

Fly free. Until the next time, ciao now.

Lois Wagner 44:15

Thank you. Bye.

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